A Conversation with Laura Davis

We are already a month into the new year!

I had the great pleasure of speaking with Laura Davis, a memoir teacher and author based in the Santa Cruz, California. She is the author of six nonfiction books, and recently published her debut memoir, The Burning Light of Two Stars, about her tumultuous relationship with her mother. It was fascinating to hear about her learning curve as as writer, putting what she knows and teaches into practice and her growth as a storyteller. We talked about everything from how to create a page turner to how to work with a shoddy memory. She also shared about how she reached the tipping point of finally being ready to write and share this story.

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LAURA DAVIS is the author of six non-fiction books that change peoples' lives. The Courage to Heal has paved the way for hundreds of thousands of women and men to heal from the trauma of sexual abuse. Becoming the Parent You Want to Be, a rich resource guide co-authored with parenting expert Janis Keyser, helps parents develop a vision for the families they want to create. And I Thought We'd Never Speak Again teaches the skills of reconciliation and peace building to the world, one relationship at a time.

Her latest book, her first memoir: The Burning Light of Two Stars: A Mother-Daughter Story, tells the story of her dramatic and tumultuous relationship with her mother. It gives a no-holds-barred peek at the real woman behind the teacher, the facilitator, and the author.

KARIN GUTMAN: Given that you coach memoir writers, what was the learning curve in writing your own memoir?

LAURA DAVIS: When it came to writing my memoir, I understood how to get the raw material out, like how to do the deep excavation, the really painful kind of excavation. But then I had hundreds of little pieces that I'd written over the course of years. I knew the theme was this mother-daughter relationship. Some of them were really good—the individual piece might be polished and powerful—but I really had no idea how to make them into a book. I didn't know about storytelling, how to sustain a story over 360 pages. I had to learn what to leave in and what to cut out, which I think is really challenging in memoir.

The other thing I had to learn, that was really hard, was sequencing—like when to reveal things and when to conceal them. Part of that was learning how to create a page turner. That's my favorite feedback I get, people who said, “I picked up your book and I couldn't put it down.” I hear that every single day. I had no idea how to do that.

KARIN: Can you share more about that?

LAURA: Well, one of the final things I did at the very end of the 10 years of development—the very last edit, after I'd actually shopped the book around for a year and couldn't sell it—I shortened the chapters. Not the whole book, but a lot of it is very short chapters, which I think is good because everyone's attention span is so poor, you know, frazzled. Also, I interjected past, present, and future really fast. So, you're in one situation and then you're thrown into another situation. It doesn't work for every reader, but a lot of people really like that. It creates a very fast momentum.

And then, there was a lot of experimenting with placement. The worst moment between me and my mother—the scene where I tell her I've been sexually abused as a child, and she basically freaks out and attacks me—was a really pivotal scene and was the last straw between us when we became deeply estranged. I tried placing that scene in different places. I wanted to reveal it at the end. But then when people read it, they would say, “I don't understand why Laura is so mean to her mother?” Like, why is she being such a bitch?

Then I tried putting it right at the beginning and it was just way too emotionally intense. People would stop reading. So, I had to figure out how to sequence things. There are a lot of twists and turns, things that get revealed. It's like putting a puzzle together. It was a lot of trial and error.

I also had to figure out, What's the question that I want the reader to be asking?

KARIN: Every memoir needs a story question. What did you come up with?

LAURA: I think for me the biggest question was, “Can I open my heart to this person who betrayed me in the past?” We had reconciled to some degree before she moved out here, but I think our reconciliation was successful because there was a 3,000-mile buffer between us. Suddenly, she was in my town and she had dementia and I got triggered all the time by her behavior.

So: "Can I be the daughter she needs me to be or the daughter I want to be? Am I capable of taking care of her until the end of her life? Can I actually follow through and do this thing?"

Also, "Could I open my heart?" I could go through the motions of being a good daughter. I could do all the activities. I could do the research. I could drive her to the doctor's appointments.

The other thing that was super hard is, I have a really shitty memory. I was dissociative as a child because of being a trauma survivor.

KARIN: How did you navigate that?

LAURA: Well, first I discovered that the more I wrote about something, the more I remembered. So by free-writing, I found that if I really went deep and followed a thread, more memories would come back. I often use the prompt, “I don't remember.” I don't remember this… I don't remember that… and then suddenly, but I do remember this.

One my favorite scenes in the book takes place in a car. My mother and I are in a car together. I knew it was a really critical scene because of the things she talked about for the first time on this car ride. But I had no idea when the car ride was, where it was, where we were going. I just didn't remember anything about it except the conversation. But I did remember that it was pouring rain, and that it was a very long drive, and that the windows were closed. She was chain smoking. So, I built the whole scene around smoking in the rain.

KARIN: That was all you needed, right?

LAURA: It was super satisfying and it's a really good scene. So, it was learning how to work with the things that I did know.

I wrote, “I don't know” at the beginning, like, “I don't know where we were going.” I only figured out it had to be around this time because there were no car seats in the back. I didn't have children yet. If it was too far back, we weren't speaking. It had to be this certain kind of like suppositional writing. I did a lot of that.

And then there were certain scenes I would have liked to have written, but there was just no way to get any traction, and I had to find a different scene that would do the same work.

KARIN: It sounds like you were working on the book for a long time. Did you know the ending?

LAURA: I knew what the last scene would be. But I had to tell myself I wasn't going to publish it for nine out of the 10 years. I had too much history with certain people in my family who had already kicked me out of the family for writing The Courage to Heal when I was 31. I had already spent more than 20 years reconciling those relationships. The idea that I was going to lose those people all over again was just so devastating to me. I hadn't published anything in 19 years because this is the story I wanted to write, and I just felt like it was taboo. I finally got to the point of, I can't not write anymore. I was taking care of my mother, and I knew I needed to write it. And then she died, and it was like, Okay, I really need to write it. But maybe this is just a great project.

KARIN: At what point were you ready to put those relationships at risk to share this story?

LAURA: I think it was a few things. One is that I am an author, and that I really wanted to publish again. I didn't want to go for the rest of my life not publishing, and this was the story I had been given. I felt like if I didn't do this story, I wasn't going to have any other stories. We have a few core stories that are ours to tell, and this clearly was mine.

I couldn't have written it before. But if I had tried to write it before, it would have been a really different book. I'm 65 years old. I needed to be this age, this stage of life. A grandmother, a mother, you know, as seasoned as I am as a human being to be able to touch into the depth of the story in the way that I feel I have. I needed a lot of time after my mother's death to process the relationship in a different kind of way. My relationship to her is still changing. She's been dead for seven years. It's still evolving. If I was to write this in 10 years, it would be a different book again. But I needed that kind of time to have that vaster perspective, more like out in the universe looking at the story instead of at these two personalities. It's looking at her whole history, the epigenetics of trauma in our family, and just so many other things.

KARIN: I’ve noticed a lot of mother-daughter themes in my memoir-writing workshops. I'm imagining that your book is striking a chord with many people. You are probably giving a lot of people hope.

LAURA: I think it does. That's what I'm hearing from people. People are saying things like, “I picked up the phone and called my mother for the first time in 18 years,” or “I've had this box of letters from my mother sitting in the garage for the last three decades. I pulled them out and I'm going to write about them.”

KARIN: You can't get better feedback than that. That's amazing.



Buy the book

To learn more about Laura Davis visit her site.

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A Conversation with Susannah Conway

For over 12 years now, I have been running a heart-centered business. I have been working closely with memoir writers for nearly two decades, but the first Unlocking Your Story workshop took place in 2009, which has now become my signature offering along with one-on-one mentoring.

For much of that time, I have been following Susannah Conway, an author, photographer and teacher who is based in the United Kingdom. Susannah offers a variety of e-courses devoted to personal development—everything from journaling to tarot to how to blog from the heart. Her name may sound familiar as I’ve often passed along the link to her ever popular “Unravel Your Year” workbook at the end of each year.

Six years ago, Susannah created The Inside Story, which offers a behind the scenes look at how she runs her very successful, heart-centered online business. Not only does Susannah share her knowledge openly and generously, but she also draws together an incredible community from around the world. In many ways, they have been my guiding light as I navigate my own organic path doing work that I love.

This Monday, October 4th, Susannah is opening a new iteration of The Inside Story—a 7-week online course ideal for those who want to put more of yourself into what you do!

Scroll down to read my interview with Susannah, where she shares more about The Inside Story as well as a few golden tips on how to think about cultivating your personal brand, which to my mind, is really about sharing your genuine Self as a way of cultivating community.

If you are curious about The Inside Story or have any questions, I'm happy to share my experience!

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SUSANNAH CONWAY is an author, photographer and teacher who’s been sharing her heart online for over a decade. She guides people in knowing, trusting and expressing themselves better by teaching the tools that helped her heal her own heart and live a self-directed life.

Based in the United Kingdom, Susannah now has a range of creative e-courses running throughout the year sharing the tools and techniques that brought such profound change into her life. Thousands of people from over 50 countries have joined together to explore their creativity.

Her upcoming e-course, The Inside Story, takes you behind the scenes, as she reveals how her online, heart-centered business is run, so that you can find the shape of your own!

KARIN GUTMAN: For those who don’t know you, can you share a bit about what you do in the world?

SUSANNAH CONWAY: Yeah, well, the people who I normally have to explain that to are taxi drivers. You know, when you're in the back of a cab. “What do you do, love?” And so, I always say, “I'm a writer,” because that's easy to understand. And then they say, “What do you write about?” And I say, “Well, I write about personal development.” But then I say, “I also run creative courses online. And I teach about journaling, and Tarot, and photography, and meditation and stuff like that as a way to get to know yourself better, and feel more in alignment with what's important to you.” So yeah, that's kind of how I put it.

That always sounds a bit wishy washy. So then I say, “Well, I've been doing it for 12 years. And so far, so good. So, it does work.” People often find the concept of teaching online a new thing. But this has been going for a while now. It is a billion-dollar industry with lots of different layers. I'm definitely a smaller player, but in some ways that feels better, because I'm a bit more nimble. I can change and course correct and make it the shape I want it to be.

I’ve been doing stuff online since 2006. So, I've had time to build community and get to know people online and know how to be online. It feels quite natural now.

KARIN: Let’s talk about The Inside Story! You and The Inside Story community have been my guiding light in running a heart-centered business for many years.

So much of it is about developing a personal brand or platform, which applies to authors, as well. Where do you suggest people start?

SUSANNAH: You've got to get to know yourself really well. That's part of why it's called The Inside Story. In the first module, I talk about doing the strengths finder test. Knowing if you are an introvert or an extrovert. Having self-awareness first, to understand how you want to create your business and how you want it to feel and what you need from it, rather than doing what you think you should do, or what everyone else tells you. So, we start with that piece of self-awareness.

And then we're moving into building a following, building your tribe of people. Because without community, you don't have a business. If you don't have someone to sell to or for someone to buy your book, or come and see your play, or whatever it is… it's not going to happen. The community piece is the biggest piece. And so, I'm going to talk about how to call those people in.

How do you want to show up online? People use the word ‘authentic’ all the time. I’ve kind of gone off that word now because I hear it so often, it doesn't mean anything. But how to get comfortable—I feel like I'm speaking clichés—being yourself online? How do you get to know yourself well enough to feel confident to show up on Twitter or Instagram, whatever it is, just as you are. Not trying to be like that person and not comparing yourself to that person. We're going to do a bit on comparison as well. But just celebrating who you are, and how you are, and what you look like, and figuring out how much do I want to share? What do you not want to do—get really clear on that. That will help you get clear on what you do want to do.

KARIN: You originally created the course six years ago. What’s new in this latest iteration?

SUSANNAH: The new spin is going to be a whole thing on Instagram, because that's my favorite way to share. I'm not on Twitter anymore. I don't like Facebook. I will talk about picking one and doing it well. And do it consistently. Consistency is the most important thing in all of this. Do something consistently. Sharing snippets of your world, I think, is the most seductive thing. You're creating this little legion of fans who want to know your story, they want to know what comes next. You find things that you want to share.

KARIN: Like how you’ve been photographing and sharing about the foxes who took up residence in your backyard?

SUSANNAH: The foxes are going to be an example. The foxes haven’t anything to do with what I teach, although we could argue photography. But what I did is I created a stopwatch. I documented something that was happening in my immediate world, something that I felt quite emotional about. And I shared it with my Instagram family. There were no hashtags, nothing like that. And I got bajillions of comments on there, because everyone got really invested in the foxes just like I was.

Photo courtesy of Susannah Conway.

I was just being in the community, and I wasn't there to sell them anything. I wasn't trying to do anything actually. I was just like, “Oh my God, look at this!” It's almost like social media becomes a show and tell. “Look at this...” and they get invested in your story. And they want to follow because they wonder what happens next. That's what my blog always was—it was telling the story of me and saying, you know, this happened. And then, well, I figured that bit out now and I figured that bit out, and people come along for the ride. Maybe it's just about being a decent storyteller and sharing your story in a way that's moderately interesting. We're not talking Neil Gaiman. Just share. Honestly, truthfully. Decide what you don't want to share. Don't want to talk about your marriage. Great. No one cares. But just sharing enough.

Maybe sometimes you will feel a tiny bit uncomfortable. But that's always when you're going to get the most comments. Anytime I've shared something that was like, “Oh shit, I shouldn't have said that.” Avalanche of comments. It was like, “Me too! Me too! Me too!” I think it's knowing who you are, and then getting comfortable sharing yourself. You get comfortable by practicing it. The more you do it, the easier it gets. But you have to do it consistently. And then do it in such a way that people get a little bit invested. And then obviously, if you're creating something, share your process, share your inspirations.

Social media is like this big storytelling platform, if you think about it, and we're all these unpaid entertainers that are dancing at the front of the room, and everyone's like, “Oh, she's so great. I want to be like her.” Ultimately, that's what it is… you do things and people are like, “I just wanna be like you.”

KARIN: It’s sharing about the things that matter to us, like the foxes were for you.

SUSANNAH: The enthusiasm is infectious. You want people to fall in love with you. It sounds a bit ‘ick’ but actually I mean in the purest way. If you're going to build a following it’s because people like what you're saying or they like what you're sharing or they really relate to your story, you know, it's all of that. I don't know how to teach people how to be charming, but that's what it is. It's you charming people, and you do that by sharing enough that they are interested and a little bit intrigued and they want to know what happens next. I am a constantly unfolding story for people to read and I think that's always what blogging felt like—a blog post literally felt like the next chapter in the book. It was this never-ending book. Now we have much shorter chapters on social media.

The way they've designed the technology with the whole slot machine aspect of Instagram—the addictive quality of it—is quite annoying and I don't like that because I'm on there scrolling. We're all doing that. That whole idea that you never know what you're going to find, you can't predict what it's going to be. And so, every time I shared a fox picture people went bananas. I made a reel of the foxes on Instagram and it got viewed like 190,000 times. The algorithm got it because it was popular. I love that the thing that got viewed the most was just about the foxes. There was no “link in bio,” there was none of that. It was just sharing joy. That's awesome. I can't monetize that, surely, but sometimes you can catch something that feels magical and it's not about money but it brings people to you because they feel your energy. I'm sure I got quite a few followers from it.

So, we have to learn how to be partly entertainers but also partly storytellers. How can you tell your story, whatever it is, in such a way that someone you know wants to give you a few minutes of their time and attention? And then maybe, when they get a bit invested and fall in love with you, they'll give you some money. That's been my experience.

KARIN: What do you say to people who feel anxious about exposing themselves?

SUSANNAH: I would say you’ve got to find your way of doing it that feels comfortable. If it's that bad, do something different. Re-think your job. Because the thing is, if you're doing anything creative, there needs to be an aspect of you finding your fans. Fact. We can't get away from that. I still share the occasional picture of me because I know that if I've ever shared a selfie on Instagram, it gets the most comments because people want to connect with other people. You want to know who you're buying from. Like the old days of Etsy, you're always going to be clicking on the “About” page because you want to know, Who is the person creating this magical shawl? We want that connection. It feels much more authentic and real.

KARIN: For those who are looking to cultivate a personal brand, what are the three most important things to think about?

SUSANNAH: Consistency, honesty… you know, I want to say, humor.

KARIN: That’s awesome.

SUSANNAH: Don't take it all so seriously. It's fun. I hope that comes through. I'm a very serious person, but I'm a sweary. That's just who I am. So, I hope that comes across. I think in my writing online, I probably seem a little bit more serious than I actually am. That is also part of me, but when you meet me in person, I'm just like my mom and my sister. We're the jesters of the family. Whenever we're around people, we're the ones cracking jokes and putting everyone at ease through humor. I think humor is such a lovely way to bring people together. Just to take that edge off. Yeah, bring that in—obviously if that comes naturally. Just a lightness of touch.



To learn more about Susannah, visit her site.

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THE INSIDE STORY

A seven-week online course

Beginning Monday, October 4th!

If you’re a year or two into your business, looking to build your personal brand, or ready to take your side-hustle full time, this course is for you.

In this seven-week online course, Susannah shares how she got started and (un)structures her day to the tools she uses, how she creates and runs her e-courses, builds community and navigates social media as an introvert. She reveals everything she has learned in 12 years of running a successful, heart-centered online business. She'll also help you figure out the shape of YOUR business.

The Inside Story isn’t a blueprint, it’s a permission slip to create the business that fits YOU.

“Susannah not only offers outstanding guidance and a wealth of information and tools in her class, she has also built an exceptional community of nurturing and supportive business owners around her. We are proud to be Insiders!”

— Kerstin Martin

A Conversation with Marjorie Salvaterra

This month features an extraordinary woman and dear friend -- photographer Marjorie Salvaterra -- whose evocative images explore the various roles women take on and the raw essence of their inner struggles and inherent beauty. Read our interview below to learn about Marjorie's first book HER: Meditations on Being Female and her insights on what makes creative work resonate with others.

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Marjorie Salvaterra's images reveal “a fine line between sanity and insanity,” according to Virginia Heckart, Associate Curator of Photography at The Getty Center. Her work was included in the George Eastman House Museum auction at Sotheby's, New York and she was runner-up for the 2009 and 2010 Berenice Abbott Prize for Emerging Photographers. Marjorie's great achievement is as a wife and mother of two. She makes her home in Los Angeles.

In her stunning collection of photographs, HER: Meditations on Being Female, she explores and challenges the depiction of women's experiences as daughters, mothers, partners, and agents of their own destinies.

Karin: What was your way in to photography?

Marjorie: Well, I took a few classes in high school and I loved it. But in my head, I already had a plan for my life, so I stuck with that. Then my husband Chris was shooting a movie in Morocco, and I was terrified to go but I ended up going. And I started shooting. Somebody had given us a camera for our wedding, and I just fell in love with it. Just walking around, creating these beautiful images. 

What was hard was getting home and going, “Oh god, it's so easy to see with new eyes but it's much harder to see with old eyes. What am I supposed to shoot here?” In Morocco it was so easy, everything was new. It was really about finding my voice. Like, what is my voice? What am I trying to say with my work? It was a process.

What did you discover?

If you're a storyteller or a photographer, have a story you want to tell. The more my stories got personal, the more interesting and unique my work got

HER: Meditations on Being Female by Marjorie Salvaterra

Can you give an example? 

So life was changing up a bit for us... I was a new mom in school and life and health and all this new stuff, and I was just sort of beside myself. What am I doing? I didn't feel like I was doing well by anybody. I was trying to balance being all things to all people. I felt like I was always trying to keep up with everybody around me. I felt like everybody else was doing it better. You know, the moms at school: they looked fancy, I looked crazy.

All of a sudden I just had this idea of the women in water. It was my very first shot, 'The Weight of Water' from my HER series. The idea that “one drop of water” was an analogy. The idea of one drop of water throwing off your whole day, basically letting outside forces take over. So I just had that idea for that image. And I thought, “Oh god, how am I going to do that? Get all these women in the water in gowns?” So I just started piecing it together. Buying gowns on eBay, going to used clothing stores. Luckily enough I got enough crazy women to show up and stand in the water in the middle of February.

The Weight of Water

And from there, started a whole series, and really, what I wanted to do with my work; be personal with it.

I think it's the same with writing. Take from your own life. Chris and I watch TV shows. We always go, “Oh my god, that had to come from somebody's life, it just had to.” Because it feels so real and so funny. And also being able to make analogies, too. You don't have to tell specifically what happened in your life, but to make it real enough, to make an analogy, to hopefully do it realistically.

I also think that the more we're open--the more we give of ourselves--the more people relate. When I was writing, people would say, you have something you can't teach. And I think it's just about being open and emotionally giving of your own craziness. Because I think that's what we respond to in each other; like, “Oh I can relate to this person.” So that's what I try to do with the work.

Is that something you had to cultivate or are you naturally open?

Yeah, probably way too open. Like in my book, I wrote about my gray pubic hairs.

What were some of the themes that you explored in the HER series?

Definitely age and gender; growing old and holding on too tightly to things; motherhood; being all things to all people, all the roles we take on as women. I don't know if you have it, but the guilt as a mother, trying to do it all right. Giving your kids everything they need and still being able to take care of yourself.

As we age, everything changes. It's holding on to our youth, holding on to this idea of beauty, holding on to this ideal of keeping up with other people. Trying to accept changes, trying to accept our roles. And that we can't do everything and we can't be everything.

I get to take out all my frustrations in my work.

I think it's sort of therapeutic where I just take images in my life, every situation, and turn it into art. Instead of letting it get to you, turn it into art and let it go. That makes me feel better.

To learn more about Marjorie, visit marjoriesalvaterra.com

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