book proposal

A Conversation with Erin Khar

You'll find some rock solid advice in my conversation with author Erin Khar, whose memoir Strung Out hit the shelves during the pandemic. Erin established herself as a writer through an advice column on topics related to addiction and recovery, and she's offering a ton of it here to those who are writing memoir. She shares the quickest way to create a platform, how memoirs are getting sold to the big publishing houses, and why she thinks anyone looking to publish a book should invest in a therapist!


ERIN KHAR is the author of STRUNG OUT, a memoir about her 15-year battle with opiate addiction that explores the very nature of why people do drugs, casting light on the larger opiate crisis, written with the intention to de-stigmatize the topic of drug addiction.

Erin's work has appeared many places, including Marie Claire, Esquire, Cosmopolitan, Salon, The Times of London Sunday Magazine, The Rumpus, HuffPost, and SELF. Her syndicated advice column, Ask Erin, can be read each week HERE.

She lives in New York City with her husband and two sons.

 

KARIN GUTMAN: When did you know you had a book in you?

ERIN KHAR: I thought I might be headed towards a memoir, because I was back in school. I was a year shy of finishing my degree. So, I went back to school with a focus on writing, and the first class that I took was a personal essay class. My professor said, “I think you have a memoir in you,” and that put the first seed in my head. At that point, I'd had a few pieces published, but not a whole lot.

KARIN: What had you published? Things related to the memoir?

ERIN: Yeah, I think mostly everything I'd published at that point was related to addiction and recovery.

KARIN: So, was writing something you were pursuing head on?

ERIN: I was pursuing it pretty head on. My goal was to finish school and then to start working as a freelance writer. I had an advice column that I had started on my blog, that moved to a feminist website called Ravishly, maybe a year later. I ended up becoming an editor there and then the managing editor of that website.

KARIN: Where did the idea for the advice column come from?

ERIN: It was completely organic. I started the blog in the end of 2009 on Blogspot, as a way to get into a daily writing practice. My blog was called “Rarely wrong, Erin.” And the tagline was: “Rarely wrong, seldom right.” My friends always came to me for advice, even when I wasn't in the greatest shape, even in the height of drug addiction. So, it just seemed like a natural thing. It grew really organically to the point that I had a good audience. At the height of popularity on Ravishly it had a half million readers, which was insane. Now it's on my own website and I still have about 100,000 readers a month, which is pretty cool. I'm not getting paid to do it anymore, but I'm still doing it.

KARIN: Did writing the advice column feed your memoir?

ERIN: It certainly gave me a platform that helps sell the book, because I had an engaged audience that was interested in what I had to say. The voice of my advice column was very much the voice of the book.

KARIN: So, how did it evolve into a book?

ERIN So, as I said, I started writing personal essays and articles. I had a couple of articles that went a little bit viral, one of them was for Marie Claire.

KARIN: What was it about?

ERIN: I think they have a salacious title for it like, “My Secret Drug Addiction At Age 13,” and I realized the response to these very personal essays was quite large. I knew that I had to get the story out before I moved on to anything else. It served two purposes: the purpose of following this passion that I had for writing, but also, I felt like it might help people.

In the meantime, my agents read a piece of short fiction that I wrote on Cosmonauts Avenue, a small literary site. They contacted me to see what I was working on. I said, I'm working on this proposal for a memoir. They wanted to know what it was about. I told them and they said, Great, circle back to us when you're done with the proposal.

I sent them sample pages of my prologue and the first chapter, and they said, Come in and meet with us since you're in New York. They sold me on their agency, and it was a good agency, and I signed with them. We worked on the proposal for about eight months, and then it went out on submission. Two weeks later, it went to auction and I ended up at the house that I wanted to be at, so I was very happy about that. I feel really fortunate. It was fairly easy. I didn't query agents. That doesn't mean that any of it was easy in terms of the work.

KARIN: TNormalhat's the dream, you put your work out there and someone notices it. Did they know about your advice column and following?

ERIN: I suspect that it was definitely part of the reason they wanted to sign me, because it can be challenging with memoir. I have a lot of friends who are amazing writers and they'll hear things like, Well, you don't have enough of a platform. Platform really isn't about your social media followers. It can be a number of things, like consistently writing on the subject for top tier publications or being an expert speaker on the subject. It could also be because you have a large social media following. It's unfortunately an essential part of the package. It's not impossible to get an agent and a book deal without it, but you're helping yourself so much if you establish a platform for yourself. I don't have a huge social media following. I have less than 5,000 followers on each platform. But I had an engaged audience, and I had written a lot on the subject for decent publications.

If it's any consolation, my book came out 10 days before we went into lockdown for COVID. So that part of it was not ideal.

KARIN: Did you have a whole tour prepared?

Erin: I was on tour and came home early. I did my first four appearances and then the next 19 got cancelled.

KARIN: That’s really unfortunate.

ERIN: One thing I would advise, for anyone who's looking to publish a book, is to have a support system set up in advance. For me, I take psychiatric medication, so I have a psychiatrist who manages my medication. I have a therapist whom I see weekly. I had those things in place beforehand, because I knew that no matter what happened with the book I would need that kind of support.

My psychiatrist said that the book is only one part of your life, no matter what happens with it, and I tried to remember that, both when really big, good things happened and when COVID happened. I had to really remind myself on a regular basis that it was one part of who I was, not the whole picture, right? Because when you're leading up to publication, especially in my case, I had a lot of support from my publisher. I was a lead title. I went to media training. I had a lot of press. All of that was great. But I was so focused on the book for the year leading up to publication, like you've been running, running, running, and then suddenly everyone stops, and that was a jarring feeling. I think having that reminder for myself helped.

KARIN: Maybe we should all have a therapist on point.

ERIN: I think so. Especially when you're writing about personal things, because invariably no matter what you're writing about, there are going to be people who read the book and just don't like you—as the Narrator, as the main character in the book. And that is going to make them not like the book. Whereas when you're writing fiction, if they're saying they don't like the character, it's a character. With memoir, it's so personal.

I recently had somebody compile my worst reviews and put them in an email to me. It was an anonymous person through my contact form.

KARIN: That's just pure evil.

ERIN: It’s a lot easier for people to be mean from behind the computer. When I had the Marie Claire article come out, there were people in the comment section that said things like, Oh, the world would be better off if you had died, or that they feel sorry for my children. You know, why didn't I have an abortion? I don’t even take offense to that because it’s so ridiculous.

KARIN: It’s easy to be cruel, especially when it's anonymous.

Can you talk more about the book proposal?

ERIN: My agents do not sell any memoir on full manuscript. My agent only sells memoir on proposal. I think every single person I know in the last 5-6 years who sold a memoir, sold it on proposal. They did not submit a finished manuscript. That said, I know there are people who've gotten book deals by submitting their full memoir, but I think it's less common than it used to be. I was told by my agents that editors may have a certain idea of how they see the book being shaped. They may not be able to see their vision for the book if you're handing the completed manuscript, because memoir is so much about marketing it to the right audience.

KARIN: That’s interesting to hear.

ERIN: I'm talking about the big five publishing houses, or now it's the big three because they've all combined. I have a friend whose book didn't sell when her agent had it on submission. And then she took it back and finished the manuscript. She ended up publishing it through the Santa Fe Writers’ Project, which is both the contest and they are a really good independent publisher. So, a lot of the smaller independent publishers do want completed manuscripts. It's just from what I have seen with the top houses, they're only looking at proposals for memoir.

For example, I don't know if you read Stephanie Land’s book Maid? We have the same agent. Her book is huge. They just made it into a Netflix series. Hers was a proposal like Lauren Hough’s books were sold on proposal.

My proposal was an 80-page document. I had 35-40 pages of the marketing, chapter summaries, comps, platform, all of that, and then another 40 pages of sample chapters.

You're going to see all different sorts of examples if you look at book proposals, but the way that my agents do it is that they want the chapter summaries to read like a mini version of the book, so that when an editor reads through the chapter summaries they really get your voice. It took a long time to do this. I think the proposal is harder to write than the book. 100%. It took me eight months to do the proposal. And then when I got my book deal, I handed in my manuscript in three months. I do tend to write fast, but the proposal was much harder for me.

KARIN: The way you’re describing it, I’m imagining that the proposal lays out the logic of the narrative and how it builds.

ERIN: When I've helped people with proposals, there's your larger narrative arc, and then each chapter has its own narrative arc that could stand alone. But you're seeing the action propel forward. It really gives you an architecture for the book. I wouldn't have written the book that I wrote if I hadn't done the proposal first. For me personally, I wouldn't write a nonfiction book without a proposal. Fiction I work very differently, but for nonfiction I need that architecture.

KARIN: What kind of notes did you get from the editor?

ERIN: There wasn't anything major. There were certain places where she wanted me to go a little deeper, into more detail. My contract was for 65,000 to 80,000 words. But my editor and I both agreed to go longer. The book begins with the present day and then flashes back to age 13 in the first chapter, and then moves forward in time. So, you've got a good 30 years.

KARIN: Your voice is so accessible. You write great dialogue.

ERIN: I have been really fortunate that I've kept journals my entire life, from the time I was eight years old. When I went to write the memoir, not only did I have all of those journals, but there were several years where I had been writing letters back and forth with my best friend. We would write a letter over the course of a few days. I'd be like, Well then he said… and then I said, and write actual dialogue. We also made audio tapes for each other, where it's just me talking. So, I was able to listen back to myself telling a story about what happened, which was very helpful. There are pieces of dialogue in the book that are completely transcribed from my journals and letters. That said, they're never going to be 100% accurate because it’s still going to be my interpretation or memory of what happened, so I think that's why memoir isn't journalism, right? It's one person's viewpoint of these events and how they changed them and others.

I'm very visual. I think about books as if they were movies. I play out scenes in my head and if I'm going to write a scene, I try and latch on to one sense memory, whether it's the smell, or the temperature, or a sound, or how my body physically felt something. That's where I'll start. If I don't have the actual dialogue written down, then I will take the time to remember what was said, and of course, I can't say that it's 100% accurate, but the gist of it is very true.

I like dialogue because it makes a memoir a read like a novel to me. As much as I can easily keep somebody inside my head for the whole story, that can feel claustrophobic for a reader. They need to be outside of your head, too. I think dialogue achieves that and it keeps things moving and keeps you as the narrator in an active role. So yeah, dialogue is definitely something that I lean into. It's one of my strengths, I think.

Obviously, every memoirist is going to have a different strength—yours might not be dialogue, yours may be setting a sense of place. I think it's okay to lean into those things.

KARIN: How did you think about the arc, especially given that it spans so much time?

ERIN: What helped me with the arc is that I bookended the narrative with this conversation with my son. So, the book opens with my son asking me, “Mom, did you ever do drugs?” which is something that really happened. The whole book is me trying to answer that question. When I looked at it that way, a natural arc fell into place.

There are plenty of things that didn't make it in. There's an element of sexual abuse in my story, and there are people that wish I had spent more time on that or answered more questions about it, but it really wasn't a book about sexual abuse. With a lot of memoir, so many of us are writing about trauma. And trauma doesn't record in our brains the same way like an everyday memory would, so I may not have answers for some of these questions. And I think that that's okay. I don't think you have to tell the reader everything.

I think that it's important to be transparent. I knew going in that I had to be willing to be unlikable. Otherwise, I wasn't going to be able to write an honest story.

There's so much that comes up about, Whose story is it to tell? Obviously, when you're writing memoir, you're going to be writing about other people. But I really made a conscious effort and checked myself consistently that as I was telling the story, that it was my story to tell. So, there are details about my parents’ marriage that are not in the book, because it wasn't necessary, and it wasn't my story to tell. I was very conscious and conscientious about that, intentionally.

KARIN: This brings up the ethics of memoir…

ERIN: I changed all names. I changed every name except for my son and my husband, because I had already written about them in other publications and use their real names. A lot of publications including the New York Times will not let you use pseudonyms. But they also came after all the drugs, so they weren't implicated.

KARIN: Do you share the same last name as your husband?

No, I don't share the same last name as anyone in my family, including my parents, because my last name is an abbreviation of my maiden name, which I started using when I was a teenager as an actress. I just kept it and I'm so glad that I did. At a certain point, I was going to go back to my original maiden name and then I thought, No, because now everybody's protected. Right?

I pay for a service called Delete Me, so if people Google my name and try and find out what my father's name is, or my mother's name, or my husband's name, they cannot find it the way that you normally can. You can ask for your information to be manually removed from all of those sites. You can't find my addresses. You can't find people whom I've been associated with name-wise. It's just constantly scraping your information off the internet.

KARIN: That is smart!

Can you tell us more about how the structure fell into place?

ERIN: Sure. Originally, I wanted something that was not as linear, that started at a midpoint and then went forward and back. But ultimately, I wanted to write a book that a larger number of people would find accessible to read. So, I didn't want to write something that people would be put off by because it was more experimental or too lyrical. Although I love lyrical language, and I have moments of it in the book, I wanted to make sure that the voice was clear and accessible and relatable, because I wanted people to understand addiction in ways that they hadn't before. It wasn't just about me, it was also about the mechanics of addiction and how this is a subject that people are afraid to talk about even though everybody knows somebody who's dealt with it. There's still so much stigma around it, and I want people to have a better understanding that we're more similar than dissimilar. So many people said they couldn't believe how much they related to what I was going through internally, even though they had never experienced addiction.

KARIN: Was it cathartic to write your story?

ERIN: For me, the catharsis needed to occur before I wrote the book, because I needed to have that distance. I wrote about my worst years of addiction, but now I'm in recovery for 18 and a half years, so I have perspective that I wouldn't have if these things had happened a year ago. There's this mythology around memoir that it's just like writing a diary and that it must have been so easy to write. No, because as you know from studying this stuff, it's really about taking a personal story and crafting it into a narrative. And in memoir, I believe you're representing multiple characters in the book. There's you as the narrator, you as the person you were at different points within the memoir who doesn't have the perspective that the narrator does, and then you as the writer who is in conversation with the reader. So that's something that I was aware of as I was writing it, and that made it a lot easier to shift between the voice of Erin at 13 and the Narrator, who has the perspective to bring the reader in with me.

For me, the creation of art is to connect with people. I believe that what moves us when we hear a poem or read a book or watch a movie or listen to a piece of music or see an abstract painting, is because there's something in that work that reflects the experience of being human. I think that's true whether it's memoir or speculative fiction or a completely abstract painting. That is what we respond to. There's a frequency that reflects what it means to be human. I think that what we're responding to isn't just pure esthetics. It's that connection with other people and how we see ourselves reflected in the artwork.

I think that's why memoir is so powerful.

KARIN: It sounds like you became aware of your audience through writing the advice column, like a training ground.

ERIN: Yeah. Also, I thought about who was reading the book. I thought about young people who might be struggling the way that I did and how they would be reading the book, and I thought about the parents who've lost children to addiction and how they might be reading the book, and how people like my parents who had a really hard time talking about addiction, how they would read the book.

Here's a really good example: When I went to rehab the first time, I was 23 years old and my dad, CEO of a big fortune 500 company, was very shut down emotionally. He was horrified that I was not only in rehab but for shooting heroin, right? This is the worst thing he can imagine. He's like, I understand addiction and alcoholism, but why do you put a needle in your arm? And then you cut to the beginning of 2020. Both my parents read the book before it came out. They did not read it while I was in the process of writing it. When the book came out, anytime someone came over for dinner, he'd be like, “You should order the book right now.” This is a guy who couldn't talk about it before.

My book was not an easy read for my parents. But they know me so much better now that they've read it. Like I said, I was very careful not to throw anyone under the bus in it. I don't blame anyone for what happened in my childhood or the things that got me from here to there because here I am, and I'm okay with who I am now.

I cast the harshest light on myself. There's nowhere in the book that I was blaming people or not taking ownership of things, even in abusive situations. Not excusing, but I'm not telling the reader how they should look at them.

KARIN: Can you give an example of what you mean?

ERIN: Like with my older son's father. We had a tumultuous relationship. He was really emotionally abusive, but I was very careful. I wanted the dynamics in our relationship to come through without going into too much detail. I have a couple of specific incidents that happened, but I didn't want to have to spell out this person as an emotional abuser because that's my kid's dad, and it's not my job to spell it out for anyone. I think you can tell a truthful story without indicting anyone. I think you can just present what happened and how you experienced it.

There's a scene where I find out that my ex-husband was still cheating on me. We have this big confrontation. I asked him if he even loved me and he said, “How could I love you, you’re a broken dog.It's one of those moments, I'll never forget what he said. That dialogue is in the book, and I told him it was going to be in the book. I don't have to then go on to explain how fucked up I think that was. The reader can draw their own conclusions. I also show the parts of him that were good because nobody is all one thing, right? I wanted to portray anyone who was in the book for a substantial length of time in the way that you experience people—they can be a horrible jerk and also have made you feel really loved at one time.

It's funny when I had my book signing in LA, all of my friends wore name tags that said ‘Hello, my name is’ with the name of their character in the book.

KARIN: How fun!

Let’s talk about building a platform.

ERIN: The fastest way to getting a platform is to write something provocative—and I don't mean provocative in a negative way—but something that grabs people's attention, that hits a nerve resonates with people on a widely read site.

Sue Shapiro wrote a book called the Byline Bible, for building your platform. I used to do pitching workshops with her. She breaks down how to e-mail an editor, what to say, all of that kind of stuff. I think it's a numbers game, too. You're more likely to get something published if you keep sending it out and having a formula for how you pitch something. That includes understanding the publication that you're pitching to and who their audience is.

I think another big part of platform is being a good literary citizen. A lot of it is showing up in social media, engaging with other people in a meaningful way, promoting other writers’ work. I do a thing every Monday, which is like my Monday reading thread, where I share articles and essays and things that I've read through the week. I do a Twitter thread promoting everybody's work. I have really good relationships with a lot of editors. Even if I'm not actively publishing with their publication, they've been super supportive of my work, because I've really been supportive of their publication. It's like that.

Having a literary community supporting you is part of marketing and part of your platform because you have a network of people. For example, I had a whole spreadsheet of editors and writers who I knew I could contact when the book was coming out. I posted something in my writing groups on Facebook and on Twitter that ARC's (advanced reader copies) were coming out if anyone wanted to do a review. I had a huge response from that. My NPR review was from somebody who said, Yeah, I'd love to have a copy. So, I think that's how you build community and platform.

Supporting other writers brings back a lot to you as well. There are some writers that you're going to support constantly and they'll never throw you a bone. It doesn't matter. I don't even pay attention. I just like doing it because I love writers. I want to support them. I want our words to be seen.



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To learn more about Erin Khar visit her
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A Conversation with Sadie Radinsky

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a young author, Sadie Radinsky, whose book Whole Girl has just been published through Sounds True. Sadie is baking her way to healthy living with the aim to empower herself and other teen girls. Read our full interview below!


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Sadie Radinsky is a freshman at UC Berkeley, writer, and recipe creator. For six years, she has touched the lives of girls and women worldwide with her award-winning website wholegirl.com, where she shares feel-good paleo treat recipes and advice for living an empowered life. Her writing has been published in places such as MindBodyGreen, Shape, and The New York Times.

In her first book, Whole Girl, Sadie offers practices, tips, and exercises to help young women embrace their whole selves. Each chapter welcomes a different mood (like mad, blue, wild, cozy) to empower all parts of their lives. The book includes 45 delicious gluten-free, Paleo treat recipes.

Read Sadie's recent article in The New York Times.

Approachable and engaging, Radinsky exudes best friend vibes … A useful, accessible self-help guide.
— Kirkus
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KARIN GUTMAN: I know that your food journey began when you were 9 years old and feeling sick. Can you tell us what happened?

SADIE RADINSKY: One day, I started getting intense stomach pain, nausea, and fatigue, and it just wouldn’t go away. I couldn’t go to school, which was really hard. My parents took me to a lot of doctors, but nobody knew what was wrong. My mom had started hearing that people’s health issues were being solved by going gluten-free, so she suggested it to numerous doctors, but they all said that food wasn’t the issue. Finally, she decided to put me on a gluten-free diet anyway. Gradually, I began to feel better. Soon I got the energy to go to school again. And within about two months, all my symptoms were gone. I’ve been gluten-free ever since, and mainly grain-free as well, since I feel best that way.

KARIN: Do you have a theory on why some people are sensitive to gluten and some aren’t?

SADIE: I’ve been reading a lot over the years about gluten intolerance, and from what I’ve learned, our current gluten issues could exist because the wheat we eat nowadays is heavily altered and stripped of its natural form. Some doctors argue that more people are sensitive to gluten than we suspect, and gluten may be causing a whole host of health issues for folks—but we haven’t made the connection yet. Or, it could be that humans didn’t originally eat grains at all, because we were hunter-gatherers, so maybe it’s biologically hard for some people to digest. Again, this is not scientifically determined yet, just some hypotheses.

One interesting thing I’ve noticed, which hasn’t yet been explained by science, is that a lot of young women in particular are sensitive to gluten. I mean—most of my young female cousins and friends are sensitive to gluten, and it seems too common to be a coincidence. But who knows!

KARIN: How did you make your foray into cooking and recipe-making, especially at such a young age?

SADIE: I have always been obsessed with desserts. All my most vivid memories from childhood surround different treats I ate with loved ones. But back in 2011, when I went gluten-free, there were practically no gluten-free desserts available in stores or restaurants. The few that did exist tasted like sand—overly sweet sand. I realized that if I wanted to still enjoy desserts, I’d have to make them on my own. So I began googling gluten-free recipes for cakes and cookies, and making them myself. I had never been super into baking before, so it was a new hobby for me, and extremely fun. Every day after school I’d run into the kitchen to try a new recipe.

KARIN: What gave you the idea to start a blog?

SADIE: After making other people’s recipes for a while, I wanted to start getting creative and making up my own recipes. So I began concocting my own treats and experimenting with flavors and textures. I shared the desserts with my friends and family, and they all loved them. People were so surprised that they were grain-free, gluten-free, and low-sugar. A lot of other young women and mothers I know had started going gluten-free around the same time, and they kept asking me for the recipes for my desserts. So during the summer before seventh grade, I started a little blogspot.com website where I wrote down my recipes. My mom took all the photos of the food, and it was a super fun creative process.

KARIN: It looks like you eventually moved your blog over to Instagram. Is that where you spend most of your time now?

SADIE: I started an Instagram account shortly after starting the blog—or, I should say, my brother started it. I was too young to have a phone yet, so my older brother would take my latest recipe from the blog and post it on Instagram for me. A few years later, when I got a phone, I started sharing on there more often than my website because it allowed me to connect with people directly, share other bits of my life, and also talk about things other than recipes—like self love, movement, confidence.

KARIN: At what point did you realize you wanted to publish a book, and how did you attract a publisher?

SADIE: I have wanted to write a book since I first started reading as a kid. I have always been transfixed by books—the discovery, the feeling of them in my hands, the process of reading. But the idea for this book started blossoming when I was about fourteen. I started thinking about the ways that food intersect with teen issues and empowerment, and I was inspired to write a book that encompassed all of that—all of our whole selves.

I started writing a book proposal in my freshman year of high school. And then one day, through a common friend, I was introduced to a literary agent. We signed shortly thereafter, and then the agent spent the next year working with me to hone the concept of the book and round out the proposal. The book has evolved so much since then, but it still had the same foundation as it does now. I signed with Sounds True in February 2019, so exactly two years ago!

KARIN: Why did you choose to focus on desserts? Do you imagine that will remain your specialty?

SADIE: I will always be most in love with desserts. To me, making ourselves desserts and enjoying them—especially as young women—is powerful. As teen girls, we’re so conditioned to view desserts as sinful and dangerous, so I think it’s like a small act of rebellion to relish desserts on a daily basis. Another reason I’m drawn to desserts over savory foods is that they’re purely for fun. We don’t need desserts to survive, but they make life more enjoyable. So baking for ourselves is doing a really sweet act of self-care.

KARIN: Did the original concept for the book include teen empowerment? What does that mean to you and how do you incorporate it in the book?

SADIE: I was always drawn to two things: empowering teen girls, and desserts—but it took me several years to fully make the connection between the two. I’m so glad I finally did! Whole Girl was actually born out of my realization that making & eating desserts is a form of empowerment, and flows beautifully from the concept of embracing our whole selves, which is the crux of the book.

KARIN: Tell us more about the Sounds True book publishing arm. What kind of things do they publish?

SADIE: Sounds True focuses on spirituality and wellness books, so they publish a lot of books on mindfulness, meditation, and yoga. I’m honored that Whole Girl is their first YA title, because they really stuck their neck out by publishing something so different.

KARIN: How do you decide how much to share via social media versus what to reserve for your books?

SADIE: Oof, this is always tricky. It kills me to be working on a really fun, delicious recipe that I’m excited about, and not be able to share it. Whole Girl has 45 recipes, and originally had 60, so I spent a lot of time over the past 3 years creating new recipes—none of which I could share yet. It’s challenging to work behind the scenes doing something for years, and not be able to share it (or even about it).

In this era of social media and instancy, there is a lot of pressure to constantly pump out “content” and give your followers a stream of recipes every day (all for free). So while I was writing the book, I would constantly beat myself up for not simultaneously publishing more recipes on my blog and Instagram. I had to remind myself that the hard work I was putting into the book was valid, and it was worth it—even if I had nothing to show yet. This long book-creating process taught me to appreciate things taking a long time to come to fruition! The best things take time.

KARIN: I love all the videos you make! What is the set up you use? Do you also do the editing?

SADIE: I mean, if you’re talking about the Whole Girl trailer, my filmmaker brother made that! But everything else, I make on my own using my iPhone and extremely limited Final Cut skills. Oh, and the window in my kitchen.

KARIN: Where do you go from here? What do you envision?

SADIE: I have so many ideas swirling through my mind about the future! My current endeavor is learning about global issues by majoring in Global Studies at UC Berkeley (alas, remotely for now). But after college, I’m not sure what awaits. I want to explore food justice, regeneration, and policy on a global scale, but I don’t know how to label that profession yet. So I’m trying to take a page from my own book (page 70 in the chapter “Be Unsure,” to be exact) and be okay with not knowing yet what I want to do.



Buy the book!

To learn more about Sadie Radinsky, visit her
site.

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A Conversation with Tara Schuster

Oh my, how quickly things change in just one week!

I'm writing to you from the trenches in Los Angeles where we have been ordered to stay at home as this global health crisis unfolds. I hope this finds you safe, wherever you are in the world.

Let me tell you about the awesome woman I'm featuring this month! Tara Schuster, the current Vice President of Talent and Development at Comedy Central, has a new memoir out called Buy Yourself the F*cking Lilies. While it may be an odd time for a book release, the theme of the book couldn't be more relevant. It's all about how to take care of yourself, and in our interview below, Tara offers some helpful ways to think about what that means in the current climate.

Tara, by the way, will be visiting the Unlocking Your Story workshop this Spring! 


Tara Schuster is an author, playwright, and accomplished entertainment executive, currently serving as Vice President of Talent and Development at Comedy Central. She is currently the Executive in Charge of Lights Out with David Spade and was the Executive in Charge of the Emmy® and Peabody Award-winning Key & Peele. Her plays have been performed in The New York International Fringe Festival and her writing has appeared in The New Yorker and Forbes online.

Tara's hilarious and relatable self-help/memoir Buy Yourself the F*cking Lilies tells the story of Tara’s path to re-parenting herself and becoming a “ninja of self-love.” By the time Tara was in her late twenties, she was a rising TV executive who had worked for The Daily Show with Jon Stewart and helped launch Key & Peele to viral superstardom. By all appearances, she had mastered being a grown-up. But beneath that veneer of success, she was a chronically anxious, self-medicating mess.

Through simple, daily rituals, Tara transformed her mind, body, and relationships and hopes to help readers do the same. Her aim for the book is to help readers to create a life they truly, totally f*cking LOVE.

(Photo credit: Diana Ragland)

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KARIN GUTMAN: How do you feel about releasing a book during this global crisis that is COVID-19?

TARA SCHUSTER: It's already difficult to launch a book, and then to launch a book within a pandemic is obviously much more difficult. I could get really depressed and down about all the events that we've had to cancel, or... the truth is I wrote this book because I thought this was my mission. As cheesy as it sounds, I felt like it was. The reason I was put on earth was to make other people feel less lonely in their experience. And now, more than ever, that is necessary.

So now I'm taking what could be a depressing situation and instead saying, “Let me be there for people. Let me get the mission of the book out there even more,” because we absolutely must take care of ourselves. In a crisis, if we are ground down and burnt out and not taking care of ourselves, we will not be able to help anyone around us. And so, I think it's really important, now more than ever, that people take themselves seriously and see that they're worth taking care of.

KARIN: What does taking care of ourselves look like?

TARA: The book is about practical, habitual changes you can make in your life. Big, big change scares the hell out of me, so I don't advocate that for anybody else. But the idea of habits and routine, and how rituals build stability... you can very easily get rid of your morning routine right now and stop working out and stop writing your gratitude list and stop journaling, because you stayed up so late watching Netflix, because you were trying to numb out. Or, you could hang on to those really good self-care rituals in the face of crisis.

I write a lot about exercise, which seems so basic. But I don't think everybody gets that message—that exercise, scientifically and just from my own journey, relieved such anxiety. And here in Los Angeles, my gym closed. Then I thought, “Aha, but I'll use my apartment building's gym.” And then, I go to that gym, and it's closed. And then, I went to the manager of the building and she would only talk to me through a glass door. And I stopped myself on the verge of tears, because exercising is such a central ritual for my self-care.

As I was in there, looking through the glass at the manager, I realized, “Wait, there's another door here.” It was the door to the stairwell of my apartment building, where I was like, “Oh, I can listen to Missy Elliott, and do 40 minutes of cardio.” That's a great workout in the stairwell, and there's literally no one here, and I'm not touching anything. The underlying thesis of the book is: you re-frame things. You are the narrator. So, you decide, Is this just total misery and chaos and awful, or is there something to be learned from itAnd can you keep up some of your habits?

Yes, of course, this is a crisis. In no way do I minimize that. Obviously, this is a pandemic. But that doesn't mean everything has to be miserable and a worst-case scenario.

KARIN: We can also invent new rituals. I have a 7-year-old daughter who is home right now, and we’re inventing what that looks like for everyone.

TARA:  Totally. For me, it's the opposite case. I've had a lot of people reach out to me saying, “It's difficult because all my kids are home, and so I'm having trouble working from home,” and lack of space. What I reminded them is that I'm all alone. I don't have a family or a partner or anyone. And so, I've had to come up with rituals to connect to people, and remembering that none of us are alone in our feelings of “this fucking sucks.” It doesn't matter your circumstance—full family, single, elderly—we all have to share this. It's a societal pain and disruption that we all are sharing in, right now.

KARIN: As you know, I teach memoir workshops, which you’ll be visiting in June! I’ve decided to teach them via Zoom for the spring sessions while this situation plays out.

TARA: Oh, great.

KARIN: I feel it’s really important to find ways to stay connected during this time.

TARA: Absolutely. I think it's important to also recognize, we say, “I'm going to self-improve this part of my life, when I have time.” Like, “When I've got my shit together, when I've got enough money… I'm going to work on my exercise, or my practice of non-judgment, or my book I've always wanted to write… when I have time.” Well guess what? We have time.

You could look at this as an absolute disaster and disruption, or that this is the reality. So how can I use it to my benefit and the benefit of my community? I think I'm going to use this time to work on the proposal for my second book. I have the time right now, so why not?

KARIN: How did you juggle a full-time job with writing your book?

TARA: I really have two separate careers, and I really thought of them as separation of church and state. So in the morning, I would basically chain myself to my desk, set a timer for an hour before I went to work. No Twitter, no Facebook, no Amazon, no nothing. Just writing. And then go work out, to change the gears in my head, and then go to work.

So that's been my process of writing, because it would be too overwhelming to try to juggle my job and my writing together. So I made them very distinct parts of my life.

KARIN: It sounds very structured.

TARA: Yeah, it was. I literally set a timer for an hour and when the timer went off, I was free to leave my desk. But I'm not a morning person. I had to trick myself into being a morning person in order to write the book. That was the only way I could do it, because I think I'm my smartest in the morning. And then I watch myself become slowly dumb as the day wears on. I could never write after work. I don't even know what I would say after work. I'm usually so tired.

And then on weekends...on Saturday, from 8:00 to 11:00. And if I needed more, sometimes it would be all of Saturday and all of Saturday night. But then, I tried never to write on Sundays. I tried to have one day where I wasn't on the hook. I didn't have to write.

KARIN: When you said you 'tricked' yourself, what was the carrot?

TARA: The carrot was a book. There was no other way this book was going to get written. Something I'd have to remind myself when I'd complain to myself is, “Nobody asked me to write this book.” It's not like a bunch of publishers were knocking down my door for me to do this. I embarked on it because I felt like I had a voice, and I had something to say. And the only way I was going to get to say it was if I fucking did it. So, the carrot was the book. And once I put it that way, it was never a question.

I also set up my home office, something I picked up in Julia Cameron's book, The Artist's Way, which is so important to me. She talks a lot about discipline, the difference between discipline and enthusiasm. So many people have said to me, “Oh, you're so disciplined that you did this.” I'm like, “Truly, I wish that the word discipline applied to me, that would make my ego feel very good. It's enthusiasm.” Like… I'm really excited to write the book. I'm ecstatic that I had a place that wanted to publish the book. I let my enthusiasm drive me, and so it was a pleasure to wake up. The trick was, instead of, “Oh I have to do this,” is, “I get to do this,” and I let my enthusiasm drive the process.

KARIN: What was the publishing process like? It sounds like you had someone interested during the writing process.

TARA: I wrote a proposal with my agent over the course of nine months. A very detailed proposal, with a hundred sample pages and a complete outline. We pitched that to a bunch of different publishers, and it sold at auction, which was completely unexpected. I would have written the book for free, which I never want to tell my publisher, but I was determined that it really didn't matter, that I was going to do this. I preferred to do it with a real publisher, that was my dream. But I would have been happy to self-publish, because I felt like it was an important message to get out there.

KARIN: Why do you think there was a bidding war?

TARA: Yeah, why in the world would anybody...

KARIN: You can't take that the wrong way. Come on, now.

TARA: I'm just teasing. Remember I work in comedy.

KARIN: Right.

TARA: I think what it was… I have heard four million pitches. Working in TV, I hear pitches all day. I went to Brown for playwriting and Paula Vogel was one of my professors. The two things that those have in common is: at Comedy Central, we look for an authentic point of view, a real take on something. And Paula once told me that writing is about putting your thumbprint on the world and really getting down to your DNA. What is your unique take?

So I had practice in both identifying point of view and writing my point of view. So I think the pitch was just me on paper. After hearing a lot of pitches, I know it's hard to do that. It's hard to be really authentic and to not try to sell what you think will sell, but to be vulnerable. And actually, what's funny is that, one of the number one pieces of feedback I get from people is, “Oh my God, you're so honest. I can't believe how honest you are.”

At this point I've totally taken for granted that we're not all just honest all the time, because I've spent three years holding myself to the standard of, “Is this honest? Is this kind? Is this the most vulnerable I can be about it?” And I think that came through in the pitch.

KARIN: It's one thing to be able to identify an authentic, unique point of view. It's another thing to access that in yourself. Is that something that simply comes naturally to you? Or is that something that you learned?

TARA: I've talked to my editor about this. Not only did I go to school for playwriting, where Paula Vogel's style of teaching is basically, how much can you write? Like, a volume game. Don't be precious, don't self-edit. Write, write, write. And my number one piece of writing advice is that writing begets writing. I can't explain it, but if you write, you will write more. And if you don't write, you won't write anything. It's so simple, but it's so true.

And so, I think it's a combination of learning early in my writing career not to self-censor, and then taking up journaling in my mid 20s… those two things together. In my book I describe it as receiving DM’s from my soul. Like sneaky private messages of what was most true about me.

And journaling… I don't know of any other way I could have gotten to the point where now I can write consistently, in my own voice. Which is a funny thing because I'm me. After I wrote the book, they give you a style guide of your writing, like, What phrases do you use? Are thoughts in italics or are they in quotations? It's interesting because the copywriters may hold you to be even more consistent with yourself than you already are.

The whole process of writing the book—if you're writing memoir—makes you get more and more precise about your voice, and about how you talk about things. Like, "You call this friend this, but did you mean this?" And, "You use this word… did you really mean this word?"

KARIN: Did your journal voice change when you started writing the manuscript? Was it harder to be honest, because suddenly you're aware that you're writing for an audience?

TARA: For me, when I'm journaling, I know that nobody's ever going to read it and it's just for me. Journaling is how I rev up my engine. My process is: I journal for 20 minutes, then I meditate, then I write. So journaling is almost like, “Let me get all this shit out of my head. All these stupid thoughts, the distractions. Let me just get that all out of my head.”

KARIN: Like Julia Cameron’s morning pages?

TARA: Exactly. It's totally, 100%, Julia Cameron's morning pages. I just word vomit. Then, when I get to the actual writing, I'm more focused and in touch with myself. From that place, I write. I always imagine a reader with me. It's usually me as a little girl. Or, a reader who wants someone to be present with them. Sometimes I imagine a young woman or a young man, but there's always somebody in the room with me. I always think about them when I write. So, it's a two-pronged approach: I get all the garbage out of my head and align myself with my voice; and then I think about, “This writing now is for somebody else.” It is definitely for an audience, which is the big difference from journaling.

KARIN: Are these usually people you know?

TARA: I guess it's a little bit of a combination. I've got some undisclosed people that I think about, that I think could use the book. I'll think of one person, and then I'll think of people like them, and then I'll start to write. It's a little loose in that way.

KARIN: What about exposure? Given that you have a certain professional visibility, how is that for you now that the book is out?

TARA: It's tough. I was a little afraid that in my professional career, where I'm supposed to be a gatekeeper and an executive, that people would look down on me, or judge me, for being vulnerable. But then I realized, “Fuck them.” If somebody doesn't want to work with me, or they judge me because I was vulnerable and open, then why would that be somebody I wanted to work with anyway? So I had to tune it out. But it was really scary. I can completely empathize with other people who are nervous. But once you take the leap you realize, “Oh, that wasn't so scary, I'm going to be fine.”

KARIN: What has changed for you having written the book? Has anything shifted? Have you realized something that maybe you didn't know at the beginning of the process?

TARA: Yeah. So, this is going to sound crazy, but I thought the book might change my life in some material way. Like, I'd meet new people and maybe new career paths would be open to me. And that's all very true. But what I didn't expect was for the book to fundamentally change my life and the way I see everything. I thought it was going to be the end, like, “Okay, I have reconciled my childhood. I've given my offering. Here's the book. It's a tangible thing.” And now I realize, it's only the beginning. And it's fucking shocking. I'm in a process of reevaluating my relationships and the way I live. Because the message of the book, which was so clear to me, wasn't even completely clear to me until I finished it. Until it was in the world, and people were talking to me about it. So, it completely changed my life. It showed me I have so much more work to do, and that the book was not the end. It was just the beginning, as cheesy as that sounds.

KARIN: Can you give a specific example?

TARA: All of my relationships… Do I have strong enough boundaries? For every one of my rituals, I ask myself, What's the evolution of that? How present am I for my own life? How willing to feel my feelings am I? Where I thought it would be a 'period' to my childhood and to re-parenting, it's more like a complete new beginning, which I absolutely did not expect.




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To learn more about Tara Schuster, visit her website.

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